AVGAS question

[Greeny06]

So, here's a Sunday morning question for you all. Thinking of running AVGAS in my stock, street ridden 2012 zx6? Not planning on doing it all the time. Just thinking of running a tank through every now and then.
-can it be done without melting my engine?
- would I need to adjust anything prior?
- stock motor, no PC, slip on pipe.

[Smiffy]

We run it in the 2T dirt bikes when out in the bush only because we have a couple of 44 gallon drums for the chopper there anyway. I'm the furthest thing from a mechanic, but the pilot is puts it in his bike, so I put it in mine.

[Wattie]

Why?

[Greeny06]

Why not??
I live in Darwin. Price for 98 octane is about $1.85 a litre. I can get AVGAS straight from the bowser at the airport for the same price as the airlines. That's why I was considering it. I asked the question not because I was expecting 100hp+ gains but because I can get a good price and I used to run my older cars on it now and then and they were better for it. It was a cleaner, hotter burn which helped clean out the motor and it ran smoother I wasn't sure how that'd work with the newer bike motors, hence the reason I'm asking.

[Smiffy]

Said it runs cooler???

[Wattie]

Said it runs cooler???

I was always under the impression that it runs hotter.

But admit I have no idea on the topic.

[Smiffy]

Said it runs cooler???

I was always under the impression that it runs hotter.

But admit I have no idea on the topic.

That was my reply too

[RustyAs]

We ran Avgas in our boat, a 16' Tennessee with a 235Hp Johnson, later updated to a 200 Hp Mariner, when we were ski racing. ( 2 strokes)

The Avgas burnt better and made the engine run cooler. We got better acceleration and better pull out of the water with two skiers. Once out it was generally flat out all the way.
We did the Hawkesbury Bridge to Bridge 10 years in a row and after 12 years of racing we never ran hot or smoked an engine.

I'm no mechanic, just the driver, but if I could get it at the right price, I'd do it.

Cheers

Rusty

[Kermit]

So, here's a Sunday morning question for you all. Thinking of running AVGAS in my stock, street ridden 2012 zx6? Not planning on doing it all the time. Just thinking of running a tank through every now and then.
-can it be done without melting my engine?
- would I need to adjust anything prior?
- stock motor, no PC, slip on pipe.

In hours & hours of dyno testing & Powercommander map building several key points were discovered some we intentionally set out to test others just came about on their own:

1. Standard Race Fuel (VP C12, C14, Sunoco 104, 100LL AvGas even high octane pump gas 96 or 100) ran straight on a stock RC51 motor will actually lose horsepower.

This is argued by many because the throttle response becomes crisper & is often mistaken for more performance when in truth the bike is making less power on the dyno sometimes by as much a 4-6hp. Many race fuels are designed for higher compression engines >13.0:1 & simply do not perform well in low compression motors like our RC51 (10.8:1). As has been noted many times on just about every sportbike forum on the net more octane does not mean more power! It simply means more resistance to detonation. If a higher octane fuel happens to make more power in a motor it is because of the additives in the fuel having the potential for more energy not just because it is higher octane.

What can be beneficial, but not always so is a blend of about 25/75 of race fuel & pump gas (1 gallon of race fuel added to 3 gallons of premium pump gas) which has been shown to consistently yield a horsepower or two. However I strongly urge you to stay away from the race fuels on a street bike if for no other reason than the extra contaminants it will leave in your motor. For me the cost of premature wear on the motor is not worth the negligible horsepower gains.

2. Oxygenated Race Fuels (Nutec #4, VP MR1 etc) can add 3-5hp without any fuel or mapping changes at all & 5-10hp sometimes even more on a stock motor with proper mapping & lots of playing around with the ignition timing. Some oxygenated fuels benefit from retarding the ignition while others benefit from advancing it.

The catch is that A. the stuff is really expensive usually about $15-$20 a gallon & B. it is highly corrosive & must be drained from your tank after each race weekend to keep it from eating parts of your fuel system. There are also many true horror stories of racers getting a bad batch of Nutek & ruining a set of carbs or throttle bodies due to a varnish that settles onto the components that is basically impossible to remove. I have actually witnessed this myself once & could not believe how bad it actually was.

There are some newer oxygenated fuels out now such as VP MR9 & Ultimate 4 which is claimed to be much less caustic to fuel system components (o-rings, gaskets etc..). I have sampled the MR9 & was very impressed with the performance & the Ultimate 4 is just plain awesome even in a stock motor, but as the cost of gas soars, $16 a gallon is pretty hard to swallow. I've been mixing it about 50/50 on my stock engines with excellent results. Not as powerful as the MR9, but nowhere near as expensive either.

3. In testing various grades of pump gas I consistently found that 87 octane fuel makes 1-2 more horsepower than those exact same bikes ran on Premium 93 octane. We tested five liter class motorcycles (97 CBR900RR, 02 Honda 919, 2000 RC51, 2000 GSXR750 & an 02 R1) & only the R1 seemed unaffected by the octane of the fuel. Now I am certainly not going to tell you to run less than the recommended octane (92) in your RC51 as the specific needs of the motor dictate that a higher octane fuel is needed, but the results are blatant in that more octane does not mean more power.

It is only fair that I note that when testing the pump gas on some of the 600's (Yamaha R6 & the GSXR600) the inverse was true in that they did lose a little horsepower on the 87 octane vs the 93 octane. Most likely because of the higher compression ratios of the smaller motors, however the CBR600F4i gained a little horsepower.

http://www.rc51.org/fuel.htm

[MAXUMIS]

So, here's a Sunday morning question for you all. Thinking of running AVGAS in my stock, street ridden 2012 zx6? Not planning on doing it all the time. Just thinking of running a tank through every now and then.
-can it be done without melting my engine?
- would I need to adjust anything prior?
- stock motor, no PC, slip on pipe.

In hours & hours of dyno testing & Powercommander map building several key points were discovered some we intentionally set out to test others just came about on their own:

1. Standard Race Fuel (VP C12, C14, Sunoco 104, 100LL AvGas even high octane pump gas 96 or 100) ran straight on a stock RC51 motor will actually lose horsepower.

This is argued by many because the throttle response becomes crisper & is often mistaken for more performance when in truth the bike is making less power on the dyno sometimes by as much a 4-6hp. Many race fuels are designed for higher compression engines >13.0:1 & simply do not perform well in low compression motors like our RC51 (10.8:1). As has been noted many times on just about every sportbike forum on the net more octane does not mean more power! It simply means more resistance to detonation. If a higher octane fuel happens to make more power in a motor it is because of the additives in the fuel having the potential for more energy not just because it is higher octane.

What can be beneficial, but not always so is a blend of about 25/75 of race fuel & pump gas (1 gallon of race fuel added to 3 gallons of premium pump gas) which has been shown to consistently yield a horsepower or two. However I strongly urge you to stay away from the race fuels on a street bike if for no other reason than the extra contaminants it will leave in your motor. For me the cost of premature wear on the motor is not worth the negligible horsepower gains.

2. Oxygenated Race Fuels (Nutec #4, VP MR1 etc) can add 3-5hp without any fuel or mapping changes at all & 5-10hp sometimes even more on a stock motor with proper mapping & lots of playing around with the ignition timing. Some oxygenated fuels benefit from retarding the ignition while others benefit from advancing it.

The catch is that A. the stuff is really expensive usually about $15-$20 a gallon & B. it is highly corrosive & must be drained from your tank after each race weekend to keep it from eating parts of your fuel system. There are also many true horror stories of racers getting a bad batch of Nutek & ruining a set of carbs or throttle bodies due to a varnish that settles onto the components that is basically impossible to remove. I have actually witnessed this myself once & could not believe how bad it actually was.

There are some newer oxygenated fuels out now such as VP MR9 & Ultimate 4 which is claimed to be much less caustic to fuel system components (o-rings, gaskets etc..). I have sampled the MR9 & was very impressed with the performance & the Ultimate 4 is just plain awesome even in a stock motor, but as the cost of gas soars, $16 a gallon is pretty hard to swallow. I've been mixing it about 50/50 on my stock engines with excellent results. Not as powerful as the MR9, but nowhere near as expensive either.

3. In testing various grades of pump gas I consistently found that 87 octane fuel makes 1-2 more horsepower than those exact same bikes ran on Premium 93 octane. We tested five liter class motorcycles (97 CBR900RR, 02 Honda 919, 2000 RC51, 2000 GSXR750 & an 02 R1) & only the R1 seemed unaffected by the octane of the fuel. Now I am certainly not going to tell you to run less than the recommended octane (92) in your RC51 as the specific needs of the motor dictate that a higher octane fuel is needed, but the results are blatant in that more octane does not mean more power.

It is only fair that I note that when testing the pump gas on some of the 600's (Yamaha R6 & the GSXR600) the inverse was true in that they did lose a little horsepower on the 87 octane vs the 93 octane. Most likely because of the higher compression ratios of the smaller motors, however the CBR600F4i gained a little horsepower.

http://www.rc51.org/fuel.htm

+1 Avgas is a high octain fuel that burns slow.You would need to tune the bike in all aspects to get the most out of it or run high comp to compensate.95 octain fuel would work best for performance with a standed tuned bike as it burns quick (actes like adding timing)with a standed tuned motor.Go to Brocks performance forum and you can see it all there,these dudes don't f*ck around.
PS our 95 ron is there 89 mon in fuel ratings.The main thing you will love is the smell ha ha.

[steve086]

The lead will fuck your oxygen sensors

[MAXUMIS]

The lead will fuck your oxygen sensors

You can't get leaded over here.PS the only thing lead will fuck is the cat..

[dickfaber]

you can get avgas in old fashioned leaded (heavy leaded), new leaded (tiny amounts of lead and non lead additives) and unleaded. all is still available, depending on what usually use you airstrip
http://www.shell.com.au/products-services/solutions-for-businesses/aviation/products/fuels/avgas.html

[steve086]

The lead will fuck your oxygen sensors

You can't get leaded over here.PS the only thing lead will fuck is the cat..

I get leaded avgas from bankstown every month or so, leaded fuel in modern 4 strokes doesn't work and as far as I knew avgas has lead.....

[MAXUMIS]

The lead will fuck your oxygen sensors

You can't get leaded over here.PS the only thing lead will fuck is the cat..

I get leaded avgas from bankstown every month or so, leaded fuel in modern 4 strokes doesn't work and as far as I knew avgas has lead.....

Your full of shit ,as is dickhead
In the 80's they started getting rid of the leaded avgas ,they then went to LOW LEAD which looked a blue colour other than the green original colour of the high lead.These days its imposible to get any leaded fueles in this country,Ps You can't even get MR12 which has lead and air rated.