Death = $750 fine

[Strika]

I bet if the fine was $10k and 8 years away there would be less deaths like this on the road regardless of circumstances.

[young1]

Spot on nelso...$750 is chump change., let alone any sort of penalty or deterrent.
As stated above breaking a couple of rules & speeding invokes the same sort of fine.
Get fucked...the judicial system needs a heads up because currently its a joke.

[tim]

To put a scale on it my mate got done for 40 over in his wrx, got his licence back and got done for 100 over.

Both on deserted freeways in the middle of the night as the police came over the horizon.

Initially he got:

-3 months jail
-$1500 fine
-loss of licence for a year.

They appealed the jail because he has two young kids and is studying etc. 2nd judge gave him:

-1.5 year of community service 2 days a week
-loss of licence for 3 years
-$3000 fine.

HUGE! He was a bloody student and young father working part time as a courier driver, and a really nice level-headed guy to boot :S

Didn't hurt anyone, sped in a very safe way in a very good car and had the book thrown at him. Something's not right here.

Moral of the story is don't get caught multiple times 30 over for speeding in NSW which doesn't bode very well for some of us

[Naked Twin]

I think we are missing the point here, I would doubt any here has not f..ked up whilst driving/ riding. The fact that someone wasn't coming the other way was not killed does alter the circumstances of what happened.

Tim clearly it wasn't deserted as there were police coming the other way. A few years ago a driver killed two grand parents who turned in front of him whilst drag racing late a night on the Great Western hwy near Penrith. Not saying your friend deserved the sentence, but what if there was someone on the road other than the coppers?

To give you an analogy, if I aim a gun at someone and shoot but miss, am I a murderer or a bad shot? The fact you missed ensures you are not a murderer by law, but that doesn't alter the circumstances.

Fact is there is little evidence that suggests that a harsher punishment will alter a persons decision making process. Only education and training will help. No punishment will alter what happened.

[tim]

Fact is there is little evidence that suggests that a harsher punishment will alter a persons decision making process.

So why did my mate get fined $2250 more, lose his licence for 3 years more, and get thousands of hours of community service more? Obviously those in power think the penalties WILL change peoples behaviour!?

I tend to think that it does generally. If it wasn't an automatic loss of licence for 30+ over the limit A LOT of people would be riding A LOT faster every weekend. Harsh penalty >> alter decision making process. Double demerits for speeding offences draws considerable attention to speed and the penalties involved. I'm pretty sure if they made a campaign along the lines of "double demerits for at fault drivers in accidents this holiday period" people would look a 2nd time before they turned in front of a bike.

[Naked Twin]

Clearly they are wrong, otherwise there wouldn't be the plethora that try to convey drugs into Asia. I didn't suggest your friends sentence was fair or justified, but you used at as justification that the other sentence was too lenient. What hasn't been answered and realistically can't is what is fair.

You also didn't answer the question what if?

We can all give examples of leniency or otherwise, but that is counterproductive and doesn't address the issue.

[tim]

*Sorry edited my post before I saw you'd posted Dunno if that changed anything.

Not for one second am I saying I know what the penalties should be, just seems very skewed and when you or someone you know cops the harsh penalty you start to wonder what's going on.

[6maniac]

" I didn't see you " should be taken as " I didn't take enough time to ensure my turn was not going to endanger another motorist/motorcyclist/pushbike/pedestrian "

ergo ... a charge of negligent driving as a minimum ...

[Naked Twin]

Tim, no it didn't and yes you are right, they are skewed and what makes it worse is that to some extent the double demerit points and speeding fines work as they are supported by "education" read advertising.

But we still do it.

[bonester]

Middle aged couple on a bike here in Toowoomba a few years ago died after a chick drifted onto the wrong side of the road and hit them head on. No penalty at all. Her excuses were - spider came down from her sunvisor, kid in car distracted her and she had PMS or the like. Great excuses. NOT.

[98ninja]

Not detracting or belittling any of the above mentioned arguments. BUT. The courts have been known to take into account the impact that killing someone by accident has on a person.

I dont think for the accused that its as clear cut as
1. A clean conscience, and
2. a $750 fine

Quite possibly this person will relive it over and over for the rest of their life and live knowing that a little stuff up ended up costing someones mother or father or brother or sister and nothing can take that action back.

Again let me reiterate that Im not condoning a $750 fine alone, Im just trying to give another point of view.

[kaneg]

I bet if the fine was $10k and 8 years away there would be less deaths like this on the road regardless of circumstances.

I'm with Marty on that one, since it's the fact, that human beings are motivated by fear and desire more than any other factor. That's just how it is.

The question in my mind is that what can a group of individuals do, when they learn about a vast injustice like that?

What's a workable and legal way under our laws to overturn ruling like this?

Would a petition signed by 100000 individuals in support of it be enough placed on FB or you tube?

Has any-one heard of such happening? and what were the circumstances, outcome etc...? Surely this couldn't be the first case in history where a ruling was overturned, modified etc

[98ninja]

I bet if the fine was $10k and 8 years away there would be less deaths like this on the road regardless of circumstances.

I'm with Marty on that one, since it's the fact, that human beings are motivated by fair and desire more than any other factor. That's just how it is.

The question in my mind is that what can a group of individuals do, when they learn about a vast injustice like that?

What's a workable and legal way under our laws to overturn ruling like this?

Would a petition signed by 100000 individuals in support of it be enough placed on FB or you tube?

Has any-one heard of such happening? and what were the circumstances, outcome etc...? Surely this couldn't be the first case in history where a ruling was overturned, modified etc

If you're really keen, then this link http://www.magistratescourt.vic.gov.au/ ... ments-2013 might show the court manuscript sometime in the near future.

The NSW court results web page (lawlink NSW) will only show certain criminal matters, but in the manuscript it will show the refferencing that the magistrate used in the sentencing.
I know in NSW if its heard at a local court level and its to be appealed by the defendant, the appeal will be heard at a district court level. So basically an appeal for a court decision will have to be bumped up to the next highest court.
An interesting case of the public having sway over the courts is Anita Coby's parents when John Travers was going to get parole. They lobbied and made enough noise to get themselves and civilians on parole boards in the future. That was an incredibly high profile case, with some real dirtbags involved. John Travers is still behind bars as a result of this.

[Naked Twin]

The difference to what this person did and say another such as Tim's friend is intent. There was no intention to wilfully commit a crime. For example if I shoot a person accidentally and kill them I won't be charged for murder as there is no intent.

Peter considering we have double demerit points and increased fines statistically more people are getting fined, not less. That basically puts a hole in yours and Marty's argument.

[Daisy]

For example if I shoot a person accidentally and kill them I won't be charged for murder as there is no intent.

But if you were waving it around willy nilly and not paying attention when it went off there is recklessness - and I think that's why a lot of people here are upset about this case.