Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum

Zombie wrote:The main problem in the world is that everybody thinks that they are right and everybody has very little tolerance of other cultures

With the salient difference that if I (and all "free" countries) think you are wrong, I don't kill 3,000 people in a building, or 37+ people on trains/buses, or 200 in a nightclub.
These terrorists don't have any demands - "get out of Iraq, get out of Israel, stop foreign aid, stop 'western' culture, stop human rights, stop Christianity..." - they aren't demands - they're trying to stop time, stop advancement, stop progression, stop renaissance (!), stop democracy...

All power to the intelligence agencies to find these farkers and do 'em in.

gray_rm wrote:they're trying to stop time, stop advancement, stop progression, stop renaissance (!), stop democracy...

All power to the intelligence agencies to find these farkers and do 'em in.

My point being that its not up to the West to enforce these principles onto other nations. Its up to the citizens to fight for their rights. Same as the women in England did for the right to vote and be employed. Yeah Afghanistan maybe 200 hundred years behind in their society, but thats their choice. To go in fully armed and to say "This is how we do it and its right, you should do it too" is totally arrogant, and innocent people get killed in the retaliation.

Zombie wrote: My point being that its not up to the West to enforce these principles onto other nations. Its up to the citizens to fight for their rights. Same as the women in England did for the right to vote and be employed. Yeah Afghanistan maybe 200 hundred years behind in their society, but thats their choice. To go in fully armed and to say "This is how we do it and its right, you should do it too" is totally arrogant, and innocent people get killed in the retaliation.

Zombie
this is a difficult one....
there are parts of the world where various people..females or tribes
or races are repressed, imprisoned or killed
because they are female or Hutu or Hmong or christian or muslim
and
i am afraid to say Afghanistan is one of those places
It is better now the Taliban are out but the western press still report females being killed,
stoned to death if they walk done the street....
in clothing that is inappropriate (no shador for example)
or in other parts of the world, if a female is raped, SHE is the
one killed for the crime, not the perpetrators!
There are still lots of this in this new century
and sadly,
those affected have no choice
If they rebel, make a statement against their rulers
they are dealt with, they disappear usually... permanently

so what do we (Australians)do?
nothing?
pressure our government to get involved?
place western style pressures on their way of life?
put an occupying army in place?

imho
there is no correct answer
the gungho George Dubya approach may work...sometimes
a diplomatic approach may work.....but not with China as an example
Repression takes many forms and the solutions are many
and even if we chose to ignore it
those who repress have shown very much a liking to spreading their
power (irrespective of who or where they are)
so
we have London and Bali and Madrid and 9/11

mankind still has a lot to learn

cheers

I've returned to this topic after a few days and am so proud to be involved with a bunch of moral and well spoken people.
Everyone has their opinions and wether they be wrong or right it is what we can do in a western society.
I will never agree with anyone that can say killing innocents is a way of getting attention.
It's a great world in which we live and as with everything it can be spoiled by a few individuals.
Long live the western world!
Nice one Smitty...........

I didn't say they were doing it for attention its a threat and they carry it out just like a kid. If a kid has been told no it can't have any lollies it has its temper and starts screaming to get what they want. Terrorists use bombs to get what they want. I didn't give in to mine (they knew better anyway) and I wont give in to terrorists [see photomikes post about our USA trip]
Some states in America still use the death penalty for people breaking the law, and the law is the law everywhere. they may differ nation to nation, we might think it petty to be imprisioned for not covering our hair but some countries it is a mortal sin, due to their religious beliefs.
Smitty - it wasn't all that long ago that rape was considered to be the womens fault as she "was asking for it" being all flirty and a c**k tease.

Were you in favour of Howard sending troops to Iraq?

Zombie wrote:..snip..
Were you in favour of Howard sending troops to Iraq?

you want my considered opinion....?

no, not the way it happened
why?
because their initial role in Iraq was not as peacekeepers

if our armed forces did not go (with the yanks and poms) in the invasion
but were sent now, today, as peacekeepers I would probably agree
we should have troops, maybe even police to help settle the
country down.

personally, I see no role for Australia as an aggressor (or as
a partner to an aggressor) in the world political arena today.....

cheers

I may get shot down in flames but here goes.

These people are religious fanatics who want the western world to follow their religion. I believe that the only language they understand is the one they are trying to use to convert us....violence. I don't have a problem with responding in the same language. How about we borrow one of George's favourite weapons and drop it on Mecca during the pigramage. They want to kill a couple of thousand innocent christians we can take care of a couple of hundred thousand innocent muslims.

If their God is the one true God then surely he wouldn't let something like that happen.

Mount your charges lads, we're off to the crusades. Hang on, didn't we do that almost a thousand years ago? Isn't that the reason most of the western world is Cristian? Hopefully humanity has moved out of the dark ages, and aside from a few die hard dunderheads, we're above that.

I don't think this is the situation for "an eye for an eye", nor do I believe it's a human rights issue. This is a deep routed religious problem, Muslim Vs Christian, Middle East against the West. Oh and the USA on a hunt for cheap oil doesn't help. Throw in the odd evil dictator, a small war and some fundamental human rights breaches (according to western principles) and the pot starts boiling.

As for a solution, not an easy one. There are three easy options; what is happening now (peace keeping army?), pull out and let them sort their own problems or bomb shit out of them all. My personal option would be to pull all westerners out of the region; troops, workers, aid agencies etc and cut all trade 100%. Sure we lose a dribble of oil and the odd rug, but the tax cuts from removing troops would balance the trade loss. See how the middle east manages without the West.

I'm not sure if all this huggy stuff is right. Yeh, we've matured as a species, we often look at problems from both sides. We've become the carers for, and the protectors of, the rights of those that shit in our face.

As a toddler I played on WW11 bomb sites. I was evacuated from school on a regular basis because another unexploded bomb had been found in a cellar. I later lived through the Irish bombings. I now see drug dealers living on the misery of their own kind and ruining our society.

Well fuck it, for a long, long time now I've had enough of this shit and I reckon it's time to stand up and fight.

But who do I belt????

That's mine, that's all


PC

ronster wrote:Well fuck it, for a long, long time now I've had enough of this shit and I reckon it's time to stand up and fight.

But who do I belt????
PC

ronster
I have to agree with that........
also refer my post above

on a different note, we have to protect whats ours
and
we also have to stop those who want to take away what we have
Iraq as it happened was a mistake
so yeah,we (Aussies) should be there fixing things up now

Our Aussie Special Services guys should never have gone in
to Iraq along with the Marines and SEALS, b4 the main show

I have a better job for these guys
go and find those who blow up innocent civilians...in Madrid
or Bali or London
and
just rid the earth of the carns who think it 'just'
to plant hi-explosive in trains or buildings

and
I don't care where they go or how they do it
just do it

Smitty wrote:and I don't care where they go or how they do it
just do it

My old man is in the military and I know quite a few others who live near him who are involved in things that never get reported if you know what I mean. They are out there doing their best in difficult circumstances.


I said to a friend a few years ago when the Jews and Palenstinians were constantly blowing each other up that they should just nuke the entire middle east and start over again. Those guys have been reeking havoc since Adam was playing under 6's for Jerusalem and unfortunately I don't think it will ever stop.

zbeast wrote: I said to a friend a few years ago when the Jews and Palenstinians were constantly blowing each other up that they should just nuke the entire middle east and start over again. Those guys have been reeking havoc since Adam was playing under 6's for Jerusalem and unfortunately I don't think it will ever stop.

I reckon leave 'em to it......
as long it stays in the Middle East

the first time, it goes overboard (like the Munich Olympics)
then
the rest of the world should get involved and
give them a warning..
"kiddies, keep this up and you/ your homes are not safe"
....if you get my drift

cheers

i honestly hope you lot are joking about judging people by their religion or race and suggesting violent retribution is ever the answer.
fuck me, but thats the most Un-Australian thing i can think of.

hell if they wanna fight, lets give em the weapons....let em kill each other....
as for the carns who try to force there beliefs on us by killing ppl..do they really think that is going to make us respect & love them & convert to there way of life??
seriously..do they actually think that??

ronster wrote:Well fuck it, for a long, long time now I've had enough of this shit and I reckon it's time to stand up and fight.
But who do I belt????

Ronster, you belt any b*stard who thinks that terrorism is a cool way to get a political message across - whether it's Iraq, Iran, Libya, Afghanistan...
Zombie, sorry to disagree, but I reckon it *is* ok to start corralling these countries that are clearly rogue states into some form of decency. Everyone was all for East Timor, and the principle is the same...
Anyway - I am a bit of a neo-con, so I'd probably best leave this as my last post before I start wearing my NRA shirt and singing the praises of Mr. Rumsfeld